1 FEBRUARY 1940
PURANI: I spoke to Kapali yesterday, and gave him the data from that book. He says the calculation of time according to the year of the gods must be different — 365 days of the human year would be one day of theirs or something like that. Then Kapali says that these calculations have been based on newly discovered planets which were unknown before. So how could any calculations have been made using the year of the gods when these planets didn't exist?
SRI AUROBINDO: But the principle was there. They have introduced these planets now. We must also do the same. These
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calculations aren't based on astrology but on prophecy and the prophecies also based on the old block of Nostradamus. The Mother has seen this book in the original form and she says that anything could be made out of anything from it.
PURANI: As from the Rigveda?
NIRODBARAN: (to Satyendra): So you see.
SATYENDRA: See what?
NIRODBARAN: You said the supramental is still very far off.
PURANI: It may be to-morrow.
SATYENDRA: How? What are you driving at?
NIRODBARAN: This man's prophesy about the new race isn't correct, as anything can be made out of anything, and you said that by his reading the supermind is far off. That is what I am driving at. (Sri Aurobindo was laughing all the time)
SATYENDRA: It may be possible for one man but not for the race.
SRI AUROBINDO: For the race he says millennium.
SATYENDRA: But according to this man our continent will be submerged under water.
SRI AUROBINDO: Like Atlantis? And your intuition of brinjal and typhoid won't have any chance.(Laughter)
NIRODBARAN: Quite welcome.
PURANI: He has brought out new planes. Uranus
SRI AUROBINDO: And Pluto. Uranus, he says, is more psychic in nature.
NIRODBARAN: How can that be when Stalin is under Uranus?
SRI AUROBINDO: Why not? Dictators sometimes bring about profound changes. Daladier also. It is the planet of the dictators.
PURANI: Mussolini too.
SRI AUROBINDO: Yes; this astrologer is impressed by Mussolini, and is a violent anti-communist. But for England to become communist would be a tremendous change as well as for the Scandinavian countries.
PURANI: (after some time) Anilbaran wants to know if he should reply to Basanta Chatterji.
SRI AUROBINDO: (after short pause): Yes, he can write that Sri Aurobindo hasn't denied the existence of the gods; on the contrary he has affirmed it. He has said that in the Vedas they are not psychological images but realities. Chatterji has misinterpreted Sri Aurobindo. Anilbaran can also write that the Vedic hymns have
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both inner and outer interpretations. According to the inner esoteric interpretation, one may speak of the gods as well as of principles. If I speak of Agni as Tapas¹ it is as a psychological principle. It doesn't mean that by being a god of Tapas he is no more a god of the fire of sacrifice. Agni is taken as a psychological principle as well as a god.
(After a while) And he can also quote the Chandi where it says the goddess inhabits all creatures in the form of benevolence. It doesn't mean that because she inhabits them in the form of benevolence she is not a goddess. As a psychological image she is described in the form of benevolence. Similarly, Agni can take the form of Tapas.
He can also say that Sri Aurobindo hasn't criticised Sayana's polytheistic interpretation of the Vedas but rather his predominantly ritualistic interpretation. And he can point out that Sri Aurobindo has no Western stamp in his interpretation. At the same time Sri Aurobindo speaks of one Supreme God from whom all other gods have emanated.
PURANI (after a long break in the talk): In Gurukul they have an exercise or drill of laughter. When students are asked to laugh, they have to laugh.
SRI AUROBINDO: Not cry? In Baroda the military department instituted a drill of urination. (Laughter) As soon as the order was passed, everybody would urinate together.
EVENING
PURANI: J has sent a letter saying that he was arrested by the Government because of his anti-war pamphlet and that he was released on personal security.
SRI AUROBINDO: What a genius, for getting into trouble!
PURANI: Somebody from Oundh is trying to bring out Vedas, classifying the Suktas according to hymns and also according to the Rishis addressed.
¹Tapas: concentrated energy.
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SRI AUROBINDO: That was my idea too. I wanted to translate and arrange the Suktas in that way.
EVENING
PURANI: Abhay was telling me that in his presence an Arya Samaj leader had a talk with Gandhi about the Hindu-Muslim problem. Gandhi and other Congress leaders seem to have realised that these Muslims are becoming more and more threatening and it would be good for the Hindus also to organise themselves. Gandhi seems to have said to this leader that instead of sitting idle and being beaten by the Muslims they should also organise and fight. If you can't accept non-violence as your principle I have never asked you to defeat. Instead of sitting like cowards, violence is better.
SRI AUROBINDO: The leader should have said, "It will help our cause if you do some violence." (Laughter)
PURANI: Many people are coming from Bengal for the darshan and many Zamindars too.
NIRODBARAN: Zamindars? Only in name, perhaps.
SRI AUROBINDO: Kiran S. Roy is coming. Suren Ghose seems to be arranging for seven persons to accompany him. I don't know how many will actually come.
NIRODBARAN: I am glad that Bengal is turning now to Sri Aurobindo.
PURANI: How do you mean? You can say the "non-public" is coming now.
NIRODBARAN: Charupada and Sotuda will be very glad.
SRI AUROBINDO: Why?
NIRODBARAN: Because they were worrying about what would happen to Bengal after this Muslim Raj.
SRI AUROBINDO: What will happen to Bengal depends on Charupada and Sotuda.
NIRODBARAN: Anyhow, it is the effect of the Muslim Raj.
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PURANI : It seems Huq is trying to come to an agreement with the Bengal Hindu leaders.
SRI AUROBINDO: He is not out to get Muslim Raj?
PURANI: He may have realised that it wouldn't do. It seems that among the Muslims there is a Socialist party which says that the problem is not at all religious but economic.
SRI AUROBINDO: One can look at any question as one likes. (Laughter).
PURANI: Professor Kabir and others are for an agreement with the Hindus. The Viceroy is seeing Jinnah on the 6th. It is not known whether the Viceroy has called him or Jinnah himself has asked to see him.
SRI AUROBINDO: The Viceroy must have called him.
PURANI: It would be better if Sikandar Hyat Khan were to be with him.
SRI AUROBINDO: The Viceroy has already seen him. The Viceroy has some plan perhaps. He may be coming to a compromise with Gandhi and wants to warn Jinnah or tell him to square up.
SATYENDRA: It is strange that Jinnah has never said what he wants.
SRI AUROBINDO: Perhaps he doesn't know it himself-unless he wants to be a Minister.
NIRODBARAN: And that he can't say publicly.
SRI AUROBINDO: But it is clear what he wants. He wants either a Muslim half of India over which he can rule or some arrangement by which he can rule at Delhi. In that way Sikandar is clever. His scheme looks democratic and at the same time will satisfy what he wants.
PURANI: Sir Raja Ali is angry with Gandhi because Gandhi says most of the Muslims were originally Hindus. Raja Ali says it is insulting.
SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): But it is true. Most of the Muslims were Hindus.
PURANI: Raja Ali says the Muslims are democratic.
SRI AUROBINDO: That is a different story. It does not exclude the fact that they were Hindus.
PURANI: No. From Shah Jehan onwards a new relationship began between Muslims and Hindus.
SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. Dara, Shah Jehan's son, was almost a Hindu.
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PURANI: One Dr. Kantilal has asked what one should do, and how to become fit in order to come here.
SRI AUROBINDO: He can do anything that will make him fit. (Laughter)
PURANI: No, he wants some guidence or direction.
SRI AUROBINDO: That is another matter. He wanted to "become" something. If he wants guidence, then consecration and quietude of mind.
PURANI: I shall write to him.
SATYENDRA: I know him immediately. He came here once. He wanted advice from me, but as I kept silent he wrote to Purani. He has been in contact with many Yogis but remains unsatisfied. He has read the Arya too.
CHAMPAKLAL: Pujalal was saying that Parvati, worshipping the sun by gazing at it, obtained Shiva. How is it she didn't go blind by gazing at the sun?
SRI AUROBINDO: Why should she go blind?
CHAMPAKLAL: We have a saying by gazing at the sun one goes blind.
PURANI: Because of its strong rays, especially midday you will go blind.
CHAMPAKLAL: Is that a symbolic sun at which one has to gaze?
SRI AUROBINDO: No; one can gaze at the physical sun by practising gradually, little by little. I asked R to practise. He said "Oh, I'll go blind!" But I didn't go blind.
CHAMPAKLAL: You also practised it?
SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. Of course everyone can't do it.
PURANI: One has to start with the morning sun. I could gaze about three
hours.
EVENING
CHAMPAKLAL: Puljalal was asking if the light of the sun can help one spiritually.
SRI AUROBINDO: Spiritually? It can help indirectly.
CHAMPAKLAL: He was also asking what effect the practice of eating leaves, fasting etc. can have.
SRI AUROBINDO: They help one too get mastery over the body and will.
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CHAMPAKLAL: And does the light of the sun also help physically?
SRI AUROBINDO: That is Agarwal's department. (Laughter) It is a yogic practice. Of course, it does not. give you the knowledge of the Brahman but it helps indirectly, as I said, by preparing you for it.
PURANI: An advocate from Calcutta was angry with Nolini because he wasn't given a room to stay in the Ashram.
SRI AUROBINDO: Did he think it was a free hotel?
PURANI : Afterwards Y met him and explained to him that this Ashram is not like others. So he had no reason to be angry with Nolini. Y was on the point of becoming angry with the advocate because he flared up against Nolini.
Purani read out a fine joke from the Indian Express which Sri Aurobindo enjoyed very much.
SRI AUROBINDO (replying in the same vein): You saw the article about Hitler's secret weapon? Somebody writes that Hitler will drop gas bombs on England and people will fall asleep for a fortnight. When they wake up they will find themselves already invaded by Germany! (Laughter)
PURANI: And the German invaders won't fall asleep by the effect of the gas?
SATYENDRA: The descent of Supermind will be like that. Nirodbaran will fall asleep and on waking up he will see that it has descended.
NIRODBARAN: And that Satyendra is supramentalised!
SRI AUROBINDO: Or it may be like the case of Haranath.
SATYENDRA: That was really remarkable. The colour of Haranath's skin changed during a serious illness when he was lying unconscious; his companions thought he was .dead and started arranging for .his funeral.
NIRODBARAN: Anilbaran has forwarded a letter from some Rajkumar Bhattacharya of Dacca, who seems to be a permanent invalid from asthma and bronchitis and has no energy left for
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sadhana. He has a dozen children. His wife died last year. He says that strangely enough he didn't cough a single time while writing the letter.
SRI AUROBINDO: Then he can go on writing such letters. But why did he spend all his energy in creating and rearing children, so that none is left for sadhana?
NIRODBARAN: Do you think birth control would have helped? People say birth control has no religious sanction. Children are supposed to be given by God..
SRI AUROBINDO: So is asthma then. Why take any treatment for it?
NIRODBARAN: Birth control is an artificial means. Gandhi is against it.
SRI AUROBINDO: I know. But civilisation is also artificial, and even Gandhi's loin-cloth. What do you say?
NIRODBARAN: But the loin-cloth is such a small artificiality. Gandhi says self-control instead of birth control. The latter is likely to create more indulgence.
SRI AUROBINDO: Of course if one can exercise self-control, it is best. But why didn't this man do that instead of producing six children and causing the death of his wife? Birth control is not creating indulgence in Europe. Indulgence in which respect? Legitimate or illegitimate?
NIRODBARAN: Even in legitimate relationships, it is said that birth control will remove the restraint imposed on people by the fear of having a large family.
SRI AUROBINDO: Does Gandhi say that?
NIRODBARAN: I don't know precisely, but he says that such artificial means cause more harm than good.
SRI AUROBINDO: That is a different matter. But I don't think any fear can stop indulgence. People will indulge all the same in spite of fear of consequences when they have an impulse.
NIRODBARAN: Under present economic conditions it is better, I think, to adopt birth control.
SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, since most people can't exercise restraint.
NIRODBARAN: There is a divergence of medical opinion on the subject. Some say that restraint produces neurasthenia.
SRI AUROBINDO: But, plenty of doctors hold the opposite view, and that is now almost accepted.
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NIRODBARAN: Some doctors say that early marriage is bad, especially for the woman because her body is still immature and undeveloped and the strain of pregnancy will tell on her health, and that the children born will also be unhealthy. But in ancient India early marriage was the custom and yet people seem to have lived to a ripe old age.
SRI AUROBINDO: The long life was due to the early state of mankind. . .
PURANI: There was no economic struggle then.
SRI AUROBINDO: Apart from that, their habits were vigorous and natural. What, according to medical science, should be the marriage age?
NIRODBARAN: Twenty or after. Of course, there is again another school. One famous authority says that early marriage is good and very healthy. After twenty the bones become fixed and rigid. Flexibility of the organs is lost and this causes great difficulty during labour.
SRI AUROBINDO: That is true. No rules can be fixed for these things. Formerly sixteen to eighteen was the age for marriage. I know about someone in my uncle's family. I mean Hatkhola Dutta's children. The girl was only thirteen when she first delivered. She got a boy, who I saw when he was thirteen or fourteen. He was very tall, healthy and handsome. The rest of the children, among them three girls, were a little shorter but all handsome. The three girls were the most beautiful I have ever seen and all the children were remarkable specimens of humanity. You know the story of Akshay Maitra?
NIRODBARAN: No.
SRI AUROBINDO: He was a great social reformer. Once at a meeting he was holding forth against early marriage. After his speech, his father who was present got up and said, "The lecture was very interesting, but the lecturer is my son and was born out of my early marriage. You see how tall and strong and healthy he is? Then he has himself married early and he too has a son who is so strong and rowdy that it is difficult for us to stay at home." (Laughter).
NIRODBARAN: The old man must have carried the meeting. Another point in favour of early marriage is that the girl being quite young can be moulded and adapted to the family and there is thus more prospect of happiness.
SATYENDRA: That is a point because of the joint-family system.
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NIRODBARAN: No,even otherwise it tends to make the married life of the couple happy. If the girl is already grown up, she has an individuality of her own and is no longer plastic.
SRI AUROBINDO: You mean that the girl should always be educated with a view to marriage and she should have no individuality of her own? Most women, of course, think only of marriage and in India they do not have their own individuality.
NIRODBARAN: Another interesting argument against birth control is advanced by people who ask: "In cases where an illustrious son is born after the second or third child, what would have happened if birth control had been practised?"
SRI AUROBINDO: (laughing): What about the majority of people who are not illustrious? Or the majority of parents who have no illustrious sons?
SATYENDRA: Huxley says that everything on the human level is evil.
NIRODBARAN: But it is the few illustrious people who raise the level of humanity.
SRI AUROBINDO: Some say illustrious people are insane. One valid argument against birth control is the diminution of population. In France, because of the universal practice of it, the population is very low.
SATYENDRA: Besides, birth control is still only in an experimental stage. It is too early to say what effects it will have.
NIRODBARAN: All the same, it is more extensively practised now.
SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, in Europe it is practically universal.
SATYENDRA: There is an increased number of lunatics in the West, probably due to excessive indulgence.
SRI AUROBINDO: I don't think lunacy is due to indulgence. Besides, indulgence is not more now than, say, in the eighteenth century. That period was remarkable for licentiousness.
SATYENDRA: If we are to believe what is said in the papers, there is much indulgence today, especially among the aristocrats.
SRI AUROBINDO: Not only among them but among the common people too.
SATYENDRA: When one reads Balzac, one wonders why people in France marry at all.
NIRODBARAN: As Sri Aurobindo once said, "To love to love another!"
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SRI AUROBINDO: Marriage among the French is more for an economic advantage.
SATYENDRA: Chastity doesn't seem to exist in France.
NIRODBARAN: That is why modernists say chastity is a superstition.
SRI AUROBINDO: Bertrand Russell? Chastity is considered a moral need which one outgrows as soon as the need is over.
NIRODBARAN: Morality is also regarded as a superstition. But isn't there something good in chastity?
SRI AUROBINDO: Any restraint gives one power and strength. Half of Hitler's energy comes from his restraint, though his opponents say that he is a sexual pervert and a lunatic.
NIRODBARAN: They call his condition of mind schizophrenia - a psychological disease due to sex-repression.
SRI AUROBINDO: I suppose they will call spiritual sex-control mystical schizophrenia.
NIRODBARAN: Anthony West and others will say that about Huxley.
SRI AUROBINDO: "Spiritual failures!"
NIRODBARAN: Anilbaran asks if he could send your blessings to the invalid asthmatic patient.
SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, he can but it doesn't mean that the patient is going to recover.
NIRODBARAN: He may get some palliation. But why shouldn't he recover?
SRI AUROBINDO: His asthma has been of very long standing and he also has fear.
SATYENDRA: Yes, he speaks of fear of death.
SRI AUROBINDO: In chronic cases the body forms fixed habits which don't want to go and they throw up strong resistance.
NIRODBARAN: But some chronic cases have been cured, for example, Sahana's sister.
SRI AUROBINDO: That was not so bad a case, and moreover it depends on the receptivity.
SATYENDRA: Diseases are due to attacks of forces.
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NIRODBARAN: If it is a question of forces it should be easy to deal with them.
SRI AUROBINDO: Why? Everything is due to the action of forces but it is not easy to deal with them.
NIRODBARAN: Of course if some permanent structural change takes place it may be difficult.
SRI AUROBINDO: The body also acquires structural and organic resistances - habits of the nerves and organs.
NIRODBARAN: We speak of forces and beings. What is the difference between them? Are the forces also some kind of beings?
SRI AUROBINDO: How do you mean?
NIRODBARAN: I mean are the forces separate entities, like the beings?
SRI AUROBINDO: The forces act through a being when they can seize on it or when the being is open to them but they do not belong to the being.
NIRODBARAN: The forces are not separate entities?
SRI AUROBINDO: They are a part of the universal, like the forces of Nature.
NIRODBARAN: Are they self-directed? Have they some idea or consciousness behind them?
SRI AUROBINDO: They are directed by the universal or the Supreme Being. The consciousness comes from the universal which is ultimately directed by the Supreme.
PURANI: Are they individualised?
SRI AUROBINDO: What do you mean by that? They are universal forces. For instance, the universal force of love seizes upon a man and he becomes a lover. When the force leaves him, he ceases to be a lover.
NIRODBARAN: But the force that is manifested through a being is its own force.
SRI AUROBINDO: The force that is manifested through the being is the universal force and the being is part of the universal support from the universal being. Both derive their support from the universal or the Supreme.
SATYENDRA: We want to know if the attacks of diseases on people are attacks of forces or of beings.
SRI AUROBINDO: Forces of the universal vital nature or beings.
NIRODBARAN: The force of electricity or the force of Nature which causes an earthquake or a cyclone-is it a universal force or the force of the being?
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SRI AUROBINDO: What kind of being?
NIRODBARAN: Universal being.
SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, it may be the action of a universal being or force. We see the force as a movement.
NIRODBARAN: Sometimes people on their death-bed shout out at some invisible forces, "Go away! I am not coming with you. Oh, they have come to fetch me away," etc., etc. Are there some forces they see?
SRI AUROBINDO: There are forces, or beings of the other world which they may see at such a time. Usually some parts of their being are already in the other world.
NIRODBARAN (after a while): Subhas Bose seems to have hinted at a separate Congress if the Rightists come to a compromise. He says that he hoped to capture the Congress in a year but the Rightists have disregarded the rules of the game and he has no such hope now. The masses are also with them.
SRI AUROBINDO: The masses are with them? Is that why he doesn't want an election in Bengal now?
NIRODBARAN: It is a queer argument they have given against the election.
PURANI: And did he always play according to the rules of the game?
SRI AUROBINDO: Doing what he says is playing by the tales of the game? He seems to cherish many illusions, one of them being to capture the Congress in a year.
NIRODBARAN: He still seems to have a big following. In Calcutta he addressed a large gathering.
SRI AUROBINDO: Who says "large"?
NIRODBARAN: The Amrita Bazar reported it.
SRI AUROBINDO: In places like Calcutta and Bombay the Leftists seem to be large in number but even around Bombay they were badly defeated in the elections.
If the Congress can get Dominion Status without any fighting or struggle, I don't see why it shouldn't accept it. It can then build up our defence and when that is ready, it can easily cut off the British connection.
NIRODBARAN: Subhas calls Dominion Status a compromise. He wants independence.
SRI AUROBINDO: It is a compromise on the surface but it is practically independence. You get all you want without an
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unnecessary struggle. When you can secede at your will from the British connection, it is practically independence. Independence is alright if you are prepared for a revolution. But is the country ready for it?
NIRODBARAN: According to Subhas it is; he says Gandhi and company are not in touch with the progressive elements in the country. So they don't know the Kisans, the Socialists, etc.
SRI AUROBINDO: Can he lead? What will the Kisans do? They
are strong only in U.P. When the repression starts, the Kisans will at
once sinkm under militairy pressure.
EVENING
Purani read a letter from Armando Menezes, written to Udar.
NIRODBARAN: Another poet will be added to the Ashram if Menezes comes. Somebody complained to me that there are many poets and artists in the Ashram but very few musicians. He says that music is not encouraged and developed here.
SRI AUROBINDO: It may not have developed but it is encouraged.
NIRODBARAN: He says that Sri Aurobindo being a poet can guide one even in the technical details of poetry. He says that Sri Aurobindo encourages painting too.
SRI AUROBINDO: I am not a painter.
NIRODBARAN: you have a thorough knowledge of painting and as you don't know much about music, it does not get much impetus.
SRI AUROBINDO: As a matter of fact it is the Mother who directs painting and music.
NIRODBARAN: But he says that: the Mother doesn't know much Indian music nor the technique of it.
SRI AUROBINDO: He seems to be an ass. Venkataraman says that the Mother used to produce many Carnatic notes in her music while Nandini complained that the Mother brought Indian mixtures into her music.
NIRODBARAN: But she can't guide in the technique of Indian music as you guide in the poetry.
SRI AUROBINDO: Why not? When Sahana used to sing, the Mother could detect wrong notes at once. Music is a question of the
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ear. The Mother doesn't know Indian painting. She paints in oils. So how does she direct the artists here?
She is not an architect but she finds mistakes in the plans of a building or in its execution, which Chandulal hasn't seen, and afterwards the mistakes prove to be there. When we bought the new paint Silexore, nobody knew how to apply it, including the Mother, but when she took the brush and applied it, the paint stuck to the wall quite all right.
NIRODBARAN: Our complainant says that music hasn't got the Divine's sanction and has no place in the future creation, Sri Aurobindo himself not being a musician.
SRI AUROBINDO: That is perfectly idiotic.
PURANI: I think the fault lies with the musician himself.
SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, Romen, for instance, would have been a very great musician, but he didn't apply himself.
PURANI: The trouble is that when our musicians take up music they don't try to perfect it but take it up only as a means for Divine realisation.
SRI AUROBINDO: Who are these musicians?
NIRODBARAN: Yes, who are they? You can't say that Dilip doesn't try to perfect his music.
SRI AUROBINDO: Dilip and Sahana are people who have real music in them. But the difficulty in music is the tendency for self admiration to grow in the musician.
NIRODBARAN: But so is it in poetry.
PURANI: After all there aren't many artists here
NIRODBARAN: Quite a lot: Krishnalal, Anilkumar, Nishikanto, Jayantilal.
PURANI: Nishikanto is defunct.
NIRODBARAN: Nonetheless he is an artist and there are others Champaklal, Sanjiban, etc., etc.
PURANI: There are many musicians too Dilip, Sahana, Anilbaran.
NIRODBARAN: Anilbaran? If he is a musician, so are you.
PURANI: Anilbaran sings all right; I have a taste for music and art..
NIRODBARAN (not hearing properly): Who has a taste? Anilbaran?
SRI AUROBINDO: No, he is speaking about himself.
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EVENING
NIRODBARAN (waving a foolscap sheet): Anilbaran has sent a
specimen of the kind of letters he receives from people. The man has asked
Anilbaran Rs. 10,000 to help him out of his difficulty and has asked for your
blessings.
SRI AUROBINDO: Blessings can be sent, but Rs.!0,000?
NIRODBARAN: It seems this man did some good to Anilbaran a long ago and
Anilbaran in return offered to help him, if he needed help at any time. This was sixteen or seventeen years
ago.
CHAMPAKLAL: Anilbaran says the man has always been very honest but he has
been cheated by everybody.
SRI AUROBINDO: That is the fate of honest people. The rule is: you
shouldn't cheat but you should know how it is done. (Laughter)
CHAMPAKLAL: What is your opinion about Nandalal's paintings you saw
in the morning? (Purani had shown them.)
PURANI: He hasn't yet seen the complete set.
CHAMPAKLAL: But he can speak about what he has seen.
SRI AUROBINDO: (looking at Champaklal): What I saw, I saw.
PURANI: Nandlal is trying to follow the modern tendency democratic art. His modern paintings seem to be like that: for example the village minstrel.
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SRI AUROBINDO: They tried to be grotesque, didn't they?
PURANI: Yes. Purani again showed some of Nandalal's and Tagore's paintings that have come out in Viswa Bharati. About Nandalal's painting of Arjuna represented as Purusha Sinha (Man-lion), Sri Aurobindo said, "All I can say is that it is queer. His goat is better than this." About some of the modern paintings, he said, "Is this democratic art?" Seeing Radha's picture in a lying position, he remarked, "She doesn't seem to be sleeping."
DR. BECHARLAL: Is that outer vision or inner?
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CHAMPAKLAL: Somebody has written to Gandhi that he suffers terribly from sex desire.. The sight of a woman wakes up passion in him. He can't even go out because of that. So he asked Gandhi who is a saint about the remedy and what to do in such a case.
SRI AUROBINDO: Or he asked him, "What did you do?" (Laughter)
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SRI AUROBINDO: The difference between medical science and proper science is that in medical science one negative instance doesn't disprove the theory, while in proper science a single negative example will throw out a whole theory and the scientists will have to begin work on a new basis.
EVENING
NIRODBARAN: Satyendra is rather worried over A's case. SRI AUROBINDO: Why? NIRODBARAN: He thinks he is responsible for her disease. SRI AUROBINDO: How? NIRODBARAN: I started after the wisdom-tooth trouble. Although he didn't use a knife, still he thinks himself responsible SRI AUROBINDO: A knife? What for?
NIRODBARAN: For cutting the gums. Sometimes one has to cut them to make more space.
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SRI AUROBINDO: Why should he be responsible?
X considers it a great crime to cut the gums. He denounces in strong terms all who do it. He says it causes madness in the patients. If you tell him that there are plenty of people who haven't gone mad because of it, he replies that they just don't know they are mad! (Laughter)
NIRODBARAN: Perhaps just as he himself doesn't know it?
PURANI: I was staggered when he said that Anilbaran ran the risk of madness if his headache remained uncured.
(After some time) Dr. Kantilal has two questions to ask. First, can one have more than one Guru? Dattatreya had about twenty Gurus, he says, and profited by each. From a bird he learnt something, from a butcher something else and so on.
SRI AUROBINDO: Such Gurus one can have even twenty thousand of. Why only twenty?
PURANI: His second question is: Can't one make spiritual progress by seeing the Divine in the Gurus?
SRI AUROBINDO: The Divine is in everybody. So he can see the Divine in all. Why only in the Gurus?
NIRODBARAN: But in the spiritual teachers one can feel the Divine more easily because they have realised Him.
SRI AUROBINDO: That does not mean that the Divine is not in everybody. If one actually sees the Divine, it is a different matter. But if it is a question of thinking, one can think as well that the Divine is in all.
PURANI : He asks if one can't have more than one Guru and if it is disloyal to change one's Guru.
SRI AUROBINDO: If one wants to get somewhere, it is better to have one Guru and stick to him. Only under exceptional circumstances can the Guru be changed.
PURANI: He says he has visited many Gurus but nobody has satisfied him.
SRI AUROBINDO: That is not the fault of the Gurus. If he goes on changing like that, he will get nowhere. Moreover, there will be a play of contrary influences.
CHAMPAKLAL: But if one visits spiritual people one can get some help on the spiritual path. They say that Satsang has a great value in life.
SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, one can get some influence, but that is for ordinary people who want some good influence to help them in
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their lives, not for those who want to do Yoga. Besides, even then there may be a conflict of influences -different people's good influences may also conflict.
PURANI: What one has gained from one may go counter to what one gets from another. Now I understand why you asked Dr. Kantilal to quiet his mind. His mind seems to be roaming about from place to place. (Sri Aurobindo was smiling at this. )
NIRODBARAN: If organisms are not the cause of a disease, can you sum up the etiology of a disease?
SRI AUROBINDO: (laughing): You have to take into consideration all the factors, from the metaphysical down to the physical.
NIRODBARAN: That's why I said "sum up". What could be the direct cause of a disease? We speak of "lowered resistance", due to which one becomes vulnerable to the attacks of micro-organisms.
SRI AUROBINDO: "Lowered resistance" is a vague general expression.
NIRODBARAN: You have spoken of the nervous aura. If that aura is strong, no disease can come in.
SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, so long as the nervous aura is not penetrated, one is quite safe from any disease. Those who have strong auras are practically immune, except from some minor ailments. The resistance of the aura depends on its reaction to the impacts of life, the world, the environment, etc.
PURANI: A has never been a strong girl. From her childhood she has suffered from one disease or another. Her nerves are very weak.
SATYENDRA: Among these children T is the strongest.
SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, he is strong in every way and he has a certain element of a mental common sense. He had tremendous difficulties in England but he overcame them all while M's nervous system is rather weak. Any difficulty knocks him down at once. Though apparently he has a strong and well-built body, his nervous sheath is not strong. Then why he has been attacked by asthma which is more a nervous than a physical disease. It is those people whose nervous system is weak and unstable who get asthma.
NIRODBARAN: But M is said to be more receptive or psychic.
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SRI AUROBINDO: Said by whom?
NIRODBARAN: That is the general impression.
SRI AUROBINDO: Your impression?
NIRODBARAN: Not particularly mine.
SATYENDRA: People here have impressions of many things which may not happen to be correct.
CHAMPAKLAL: Very often people form their impressions from the Mother's way of dealing with people. Some say that those who remain near her are more receptive. Because they are more receptive the Mother keeps them with her or sees them often. They are more psychic.
SRI AUROBINDO: There are many psychically advanced sadthaks whom the Mother sees only once or twice a year. Receptivity is a complex phenomenon. One may be receptive in one way, another in another way.
CHAMPAKLAL: Sometimes people hear something said by the Mother about somebody and they build up a story. For example, Y was said to be very receptive and to have had a past relation with the Mother and so was called by the Mother for special pranams, etc.
SRI AUROBINDO: Past relation? Receptivity is a different thing. There is no single reason for which the Mother sees people.
CHAMPAKLAL: Of course, they also say that the Mother may see some people very often because of their special needs or difficulties.
SRI AUROBINDO (smiling): All chat is humbug, because it is deduced by mental reasoning. If it were a question of seeing or feeling it would be a different matter.
EVENING
PURANI: J asks: Is there a universal plane called the universal psychic, like the universal vital or the universal mental? He thinks of the psychic as being only individual.
SRI AUROBINDO: It is a mistake to suppose that the psychic is only individual or consists only of individuality. There is a universal psychic like the rest.
PURANI: Is it there that the soul retires after leaving the body and gathers material for a new birth?
SRI AUROBINDO: Yes.
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PURANI: He also asks how the distinction is made in The Life Divine between Being and Non-being. Does the Non-Being come after Overmind - or before it?
SRI AUROBINDO: Why is he particular about the Non-Being? You arrive at the Non-Being by following the negative path. That is to say, when you start from mind, I mean spiritual mind, you come or open yourself to the experience of Nirvana. This Nirvana is the negation of all that the mind can affirm as the Being but it is only a gate of entry into the Absolute. From this Nirvana you can either take up the negative or the affirmative path. By the negative you reach the Non-Being or what the Gita calls anirdeshyam (the intermediate). This Non-Being is the Buddhists Nirvana or Chinese Tao. The Buddhists consider it as Shunya, the Void, while to the Taoists this void, contains everything. Again, this Nirvana is not the same as the Brahmanirvana of the Gita.
By following the affirmative path you arrive at the Supermind and pass through it to the Sachchidananda . In my own case, I passed to the supermind from a Nirvana which was not of the Buddhist type but a state of mere being with the most indispensable positive element. The Goraknath people also follow this affirmative way.
From the point of view of realisation, there are three aspects of Brahmana - Atman or self, Purusha or Soul, Ishwara or God. The Adwaitins negate both Purusha and Ishwara and arrive at the unity of the Atman and Brahman. The Buddhists negate all the three aspects and arrive at Non-Being.
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